And do you think that unto such as you;
A maggot-minded, starved, fanatic crew:
God gave the secret, and denied it me?--
Well, well, what matters it! Believe that, too.
Wednesday, August 19, 2009
Thursday, August 13, 2009
An interesting question
came across an interesting post along with comments
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2009/08/i_get_email_40.php#comments
Note that while most religious people say they want to have a discussion what they mean is Let me try to convince you , but there's nothing you can say that will make me change my mind.
But before I attempt to answer the question , lets draw some boundaries. Does God exist is a different question than Does the God of my religion exist. The former is a difficult question to answer. To paraphrase Carl Sagan , it all depends on what you mean by God, if for e.g. God is love then of course God exists. The latter God of religion is an easier question to answer because we do have a definition of the God and some of his or her properties. The God of religion also makes some in theory testable assertions. The God of religion also makes some demands of us , so it is easier to examine them. Of course some religions make this harder than others. Its easier to analyze Judaism, Christianity or Islam because there are fixed doctrines. Its more difficult to analyze Hindusim or Buddhism because the doctrines aren't that fixed. Don't believe in Vishnu? Thats ok, you can still call yourself a Hindu. Don't like Shiva? Worship Kali and your fine.
Back to Nikki's question and comments. various posters in the comments have all pointed out the contradictions, the inaccuracies , the errors and the problems in religion. So I wont reiterate those here, Ill just look at the things that don't seem to be covered
She makes a common request , Why should I not believe? - Thats the wrong question (People don't need a reason to not believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster). Bertrand Russel's Flying teapot analogy proving that the onus is on the believer. The question is why should you believe? What benefits do you get.?
Lets take a look at the common answers to the what benefits does religion provide? (And Ill look at only the positive reasons , not the You'll go to hell if you don't follow my religions instructions, which are really so pathetic that I can only shake my head)
a. It either provides a set of rules or a set of guidelines that help me determine what's right and whats wrong.
b. It makes me a better person
c. It's a social tool that people use to meet
a. Religion provides us a set of guidelines and rules to determine right from wrong
Suppose Religion has a guideline that after consideration you find feels wrong. What should you do? Its clear that most of us would follow what our brain decides is the right thing. In which case how is religion any different from Aesop's fables
b. It makes me a better person
If the religion is conclusively proven false(somehow) then do you lose the betterness?
c. It's a social tool that people use to meet
Well other social tools exist, the social bit that religion promotes is normally divisive. Meet people like you, be with people like you, marry people like you, let your children play with children whose parents are like you. I'm not sure how this is a positive.
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2009/08/i_get_email_40.php#comments
Note that while most religious people say they want to have a discussion what they mean is Let me try to convince you , but there's nothing you can say that will make me change my mind.
But before I attempt to answer the question , lets draw some boundaries. Does God exist is a different question than Does the God of my religion exist. The former is a difficult question to answer. To paraphrase Carl Sagan , it all depends on what you mean by God, if for e.g. God is love then of course God exists. The latter God of religion is an easier question to answer because we do have a definition of the God and some of his or her properties. The God of religion also makes some in theory testable assertions. The God of religion also makes some demands of us , so it is easier to examine them. Of course some religions make this harder than others. Its easier to analyze Judaism, Christianity or Islam because there are fixed doctrines. Its more difficult to analyze Hindusim or Buddhism because the doctrines aren't that fixed. Don't believe in Vishnu? Thats ok, you can still call yourself a Hindu. Don't like Shiva? Worship Kali and your fine.
Back to Nikki's question and comments. various posters in the comments have all pointed out the contradictions, the inaccuracies , the errors and the problems in religion. So I wont reiterate those here, Ill just look at the things that don't seem to be covered
She makes a common request , Why should I not believe? - Thats the wrong question (People don't need a reason to not believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster). Bertrand Russel's Flying teapot analogy proving that the onus is on the believer. The question is why should you believe? What benefits do you get.?
Lets take a look at the common answers to the what benefits does religion provide? (And Ill look at only the positive reasons , not the You'll go to hell if you don't follow my religions instructions, which are really so pathetic that I can only shake my head)
a. It either provides a set of rules or a set of guidelines that help me determine what's right and whats wrong.
b. It makes me a better person
c. It's a social tool that people use to meet
a. Religion provides us a set of guidelines and rules to determine right from wrong
Suppose Religion has a guideline that after consideration you find feels wrong. What should you do? Its clear that most of us would follow what our brain decides is the right thing. In which case how is religion any different from Aesop's fables
b. It makes me a better person
If the religion is conclusively proven false(somehow) then do you lose the betterness?
c. It's a social tool that people use to meet
Well other social tools exist, the social bit that religion promotes is normally divisive. Meet people like you, be with people like you, marry people like you, let your children play with children whose parents are like you. I'm not sure how this is a positive.
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